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User-Posted Comments on John 3:1
John, after reading my post below, I realize that it was perhaps a bit short and abrupt to say the least. For that I apologize to both of you. It should not be as such. It is easy to loose sight of the fact that there is a real person on the other side of the monitor. And I think I may have let my frustrations get the best of me. But my frustration is not with the editor, but rather with what I've seen in some of the English translations I have just begun to read; the cause (or perhaps outcome) of such notions that I am speaking against.
Man can be reborn/renewed through Christ. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:9). Have faith, and it will happen. But note that the word 'Lord' carries a lot of weight for this renewal. It's not just saying it, it's meaning it and applying it. But other than that - outside of Christ - we are as good as dead men walking. (Read John chapter 8, you'll see it. We are all sinners and we are all as good as dead without Jesus.)
My point in the post below is that we are not "from above". We are from dust and to dust we will return (Gen 3:19). God gave us life (Gen 2:7), but sin took it away (Gen 2:17 through Gen 3). Now God's Word, Jesus, is THE WAY back to life (John 14:6).
Considering this, born "from above" somewhat seems appropriate for John 3:3, since Jesus is "from above" (John 8) and we are reborn through Him. But it leaves an open hole for one to conclude that this has already occurred. [For example: "Jesus is referring to our origin as children of God, from God."... could lead to something like 'God made us, so we are from above, so surely we will go to heaven.' ... which could lead to, "Surely you will not die" (Gen 3:4).]
Now about this conversation with Nicodemus, first go back to John chapter 2. In John 2:23-25 note that Jesus did not fully commit to the people. They were amazed by the miracles and believed in his name (Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"); they believed he was from God, as Nicodemus says in chapter 3. But Jesus knew they just weren't ready to go the distance and accept Him as Lord. Likewise, Nicodemus in chapter 3 said "we know you are from God" but he did not call Jesus Lord. He called him rabbi/teacher. So in John 3:3, Jesus began to teach him. But even in calling Jesus a teacher, Nicodemus was not fully open to the Word. Nicodemus's response in 3:5 clearly shows that he did not understand what Jesus was talking about. Perhaps he should have let Jesus continue teaching before asking such a question. But the root problem in his confusion was not about the meaning or usage of a word. It was about disbelief (see 3:11-12). To Him that Nicodemus called a "teacher" "from God", Nicodemus was being what some may call a smart[mule]. Think about it: 'can I crawl back into the womb and come back out agian?' Nevertheless, Jesus continued to teach - perhaps for the sake of others around at the time (or even you and I here today). Jesus repeats His statement in 3:7, "You must be born ____," and adds explanation that He is talking about spiritual birth (3:6-8). This too is not good enough for Nicodemus. Nicodemus then questions him again. This time it is not so apparent in Nicodemus's words, but I suspect that there is still a little sarcasm (or doubt) in his voice; because Jesus replies with a little sarcasm of His own, calling Nicodemus the "teacher of Israel". We see in 3:1 that Nicodemus was a Pharisee and a member of the Jewish ruling council. But the Lord certainly did not think of him as the teacher of Israel; see Matthew 23, and specifically 23:8 and 23:10. Nevertheless, Jesus pleads with Nicodemus, "Verily, verily" / I'm telling you the truth. We know (3:2), we've seen (2:23), but they will not accept what he is saying. Jesus continues teaching through verse 3:21. But be careful with 3:19. It was a description of mans 'separation' from God. KJV calls it 'condemnation'. And this - see my frustration - has somehow evolved into a statement about judgment. Leading to the notion that we are judged (salvation/condemnation) based on our deeds (3:20-21). But this notion contradicts 3:18. We cannot work our way to heaven. We need Jesus. Our deeds - if they are true - are merely a reflection of our beliefs. Note also that in 3:18, the one who does not believe is already separated/condemned (as good as dead).
God Bless.
- jst (10/10/2010 1:17:27 AM) [qBible.com]
Man can be reborn/renewed through Christ. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Rom 10:9). Have faith, and it will happen. But note that the word 'Lord' carries a lot of weight for this renewal. It's not just saying it, it's meaning it and applying it. But other than that - outside of Christ - we are as good as dead men walking. (Read John chapter 8, you'll see it. We are all sinners and we are all as good as dead without Jesus.)
My point in the post below is that we are not "from above". We are from dust and to dust we will return (Gen 3:19). God gave us life (Gen 2:7), but sin took it away (Gen 2:17 through Gen 3). Now God's Word, Jesus, is THE WAY back to life (John 14:6).
Considering this, born "from above" somewhat seems appropriate for John 3:3, since Jesus is "from above" (John 8) and we are reborn through Him. But it leaves an open hole for one to conclude that this has already occurred. [For example: "Jesus is referring to our origin as children of God, from God."... could lead to something like 'God made us, so we are from above, so surely we will go to heaven.' ... which could lead to, "Surely you will not die" (Gen 3:4).]
Now about this conversation with Nicodemus, first go back to John chapter 2. In John 2:23-25 note that Jesus did not fully commit to the people. They were amazed by the miracles and believed in his name (Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"); they believed he was from God, as Nicodemus says in chapter 3. But Jesus knew they just weren't ready to go the distance and accept Him as Lord. Likewise, Nicodemus in chapter 3 said "we know you are from God" but he did not call Jesus Lord. He called him rabbi/teacher. So in John 3:3, Jesus began to teach him. But even in calling Jesus a teacher, Nicodemus was not fully open to the Word. Nicodemus's response in 3:5 clearly shows that he did not understand what Jesus was talking about. Perhaps he should have let Jesus continue teaching before asking such a question. But the root problem in his confusion was not about the meaning or usage of a word. It was about disbelief (see 3:11-12). To Him that Nicodemus called a "teacher" "from God", Nicodemus was being what some may call a smart[mule]. Think about it: 'can I crawl back into the womb and come back out agian?' Nevertheless, Jesus continued to teach - perhaps for the sake of others around at the time (or even you and I here today). Jesus repeats His statement in 3:7, "You must be born ____," and adds explanation that He is talking about spiritual birth (3:6-8). This too is not good enough for Nicodemus. Nicodemus then questions him again. This time it is not so apparent in Nicodemus's words, but I suspect that there is still a little sarcasm (or doubt) in his voice; because Jesus replies with a little sarcasm of His own, calling Nicodemus the "teacher of Israel". We see in 3:1 that Nicodemus was a Pharisee and a member of the Jewish ruling council. But the Lord certainly did not think of him as the teacher of Israel; see Matthew 23, and specifically 23:8 and 23:10. Nevertheless, Jesus pleads with Nicodemus, "Verily, verily" / I'm telling you the truth. We know (3:2), we've seen (2:23), but they will not accept what he is saying. Jesus continues teaching through verse 3:21. But be careful with 3:19. It was a description of mans 'separation' from God. KJV calls it 'condemnation'. And this - see my frustration - has somehow evolved into a statement about judgment. Leading to the notion that we are judged (salvation/condemnation) based on our deeds (3:20-21). But this notion contradicts 3:18. We cannot work our way to heaven. We need Jesus. Our deeds - if they are true - are merely a reflection of our beliefs. Note also that in 3:18, the one who does not believe is already separated/condemned (as good as dead).
God Bless.
- jst (10/10/2010 1:17:27 AM) [qBible.com]
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